I Will Try To Be As Unambiguous As Possible
ailment b=facebook”>Maj. Gen. James E. Chambers, you are a disgrace to the United States military, and are not fit to wear a uniform.
ailment b=facebook”>Maj. Gen. James E. Chambers, you are a disgrace to the United States military, and are not fit to wear a uniform.
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August 20th, 2010 at 9:47 pm
Let me be the first Christian to say: WTF? And yeah, you’re right.
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August 20th, 2010 at 11:29 pm
Hmm. I’m don’t know the words of the oath word for word, but don’t the General’s actions violate them?
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August 20th, 2010 at 11:40 pm
Whiskey.
Tango.
Foxtrot.?
*grumblegrumblegrumble*
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August 21st, 2010 at 12:23 am
That’s very messed up, I don’t even have the ability to express my contempt for this Chambers guy any more because this story has shaken me with it’s absurdity.
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August 21st, 2010 at 12:49 am
As a Catholic, I feel that Maj. Gen. James E. Chambers is a raving asshat who should be punished for the crime of imposing his religion onto others in the most horrific way (forcing them to attend Christian rock concerts), with a ten year sentence to Soouthern Germany, where priests will force themselves onto him.
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Slyfoxx55 reply on August 22nd, 2010 3:52 am:
This plan is unaccaptable to me. I am stationed in southern Germany, and don’t want him anywhere near here.
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M578Jockey reply on August 23rd, 2010 8:02 am:
I agree I have family in southern germany. Send him to saudi arabia and let him try to force his Bull%#% on the locals. Maybe we could get a public stonoing for him.
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August 21st, 2010 at 1:14 am
I would not have completed any Maintenance and in addition I would have immediately called IG and everyone in the chain of command, by the end of it i would either have orders out of that post or be jailed!!!!
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August 21st, 2010 at 4:14 am
I propose that we put together a new mandatory function. One that involves this man being scalped, and I propose the old european way, cutting the sides of the face and ripping the face off. Just a suggestion…
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August 21st, 2010 at 9:27 am
Quite outrageous. I quite agree with your sentiment.
So what are the chances of he and his cronies being put on a charge?
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August 21st, 2010 at 9:30 am
from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Uniformed_Services_Oath_of_Office
“I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States …”
He’s violating his oath, by violating the 1st Amendment.
IMO he should be expelled from the military with the classic public humiliation of having all his honors and insignia removed from his uniform. Do it in front of his entire command, broadcast it to EVERY member of the US military, and try to stamp out this sort of “Christian Nation” bullshit. It’ll never happen, alas.
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August 21st, 2010 at 1:34 pm
Definitely a disgrace. As the article says it would be ok if it were hosted under the auspices of the Chaplains office and were a voluntary event. The general should be stripped of his command and forced into retirement and these events should be terminated or placed under the Chaplains offices and run properly or disbanded.
The worst part is that the generals don’t even have to formally lay out a mandatory attendance policy. Any function sponsored by the command is usually treated as mandatory attendance even if it is “officially voluntary”.
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August 22nd, 2010 at 1:08 pm
As a Christian I’m pretty ticked at this for two reasons.
A: If your intention is to lead people into the faith, the best way to do that is not to force them, but rather to lead by example.
B: Barlowgirl sucks musically. I’m sure they’re fine upstanding women, but as music groups go there are a lot better sounding ones.
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August 22nd, 2010 at 1:22 pm
UNITED STATES. Not Christian States. I think the military chaplaincy should be abolished. If you need a priest and someone in your unit is a priest, there you go. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the military chaplaincy has Christian, Jewish and Muslim holy men. To my (admittedly limited) knowledge, there isn’t anything else and no equivalent for non-religious personnel.
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M578Jockey reply on August 23rd, 2010 8:05 am:
No, the Chaplains are good people who do a lot of good for soldiers. No Chaplain I ever met would try this kind of BS. Only a power drunk wanna be taliban general would do something this stupid.
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nutcase reply on August 23rd, 2010 8:48 am:
As a Pagan, the Christian chaplain in my unit was actually my friend. He fought for our chain to allow pagans time off to worship and create a circle during the Sabbats and Esbats. He hosted multiple marriage camps that my wife and I went to that had zero religious overtones, so please dont lump chaplains into this category.
And BTW his assistant was an Atheist closet Lesbian lol.
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StoneWolf reply on August 23rd, 2010 11:42 am:
Well, I said correct me if I’m wrong. I stand corrected. I’m glad that Chaplains are in fact as you describe and not as I had thought.
Jon reply on August 24th, 2010 11:18 am:
Yeah… the chaplain I had at sea was an awesome guy. While he was southern baptist, he had no problems with other faiths, and upheld them with no issues.
Listening to him bless the missile at night over the 1MC was a huge plus… :)
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Jim A. reply on August 23rd, 2010 9:26 am:
I suspect that most chaplains would-have-known-beter. And would have told the General if he had asked that this was the sort of thing likely to have “negative career consequences.”
The military, by it’s nature is very heirachical. An organization that debated every order would lose every war. As others have pointed out, ANY “suggestion” from a general officer is less than a completely free choice. And a very high value is rightly placed on “unit cohesion,” because a willingness to risk one’s own safety for that of those around you is arguably the most important military virtue.
But by placing unit cohesion in conflict with the deeply held religious beliefs of some in the unit, this general has put cohesion in jepeordy. Indeed, he has set “do what you’re told” and unit cohesion in conflict with belief in, and obligation to defend the freedom of religion that ALL U.S. soldiers are supposed to be sworn to.
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Jim A. reply on August 23rd, 2010 9:29 am:
And let us congratulate those who stood up for themselves, others and the constitution by opposing this asshattery and bringing it to the attention of higher ups and the public. I wonder how long he’d been getting away with this crap?
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August 22nd, 2010 at 6:18 pm
An update:
http://breakingspells.net/maj-gen-james-e-chambers-hazes-soldiers-in-his-command/
Near the end of the article: (emphasis mine)
“Luckily, Mikey Weinstein from the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) is involved in this. It’s left me to wonder if that’s why Chambers is no longer an installation command (as of June 2010) and now a director at some supply dump on an Air Force Base. It’s definitely a step down in the career ladder -going from Installation Commander with hundreds of subordinate commanders to director of logistics on a base that doesn’t even belong to the Army.”
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Billy reply on August 22nd, 2010 7:55 pm:
How come they never choose my methods? A facial scalping would have been much better.
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StoneWolf reply on August 22nd, 2010 9:39 pm:
How about dishonorable discharge, a week in the stocks erected at the parade ground of his old base, then face-scalp and crucification. He’d probably like that last part.
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Billy reply on August 23rd, 2010 8:21 pm:
As long as the phrase “Not the face, anything but the face!” is mearly met with evil cackling.
captcha: that bistind, I think captcha meant “bastard”
Andrew reply on August 25th, 2010 7:44 am:
your ignorance astounds me. Double D’s aren’t given to college graduates.
August 22nd, 2010 at 6:21 pm
Also speaking as a Christian and a Soldier, I am appalled. This is abominable. It’s reminiscent of when the Roman Army found that it had several elite Soldiers, members of what was called the Wrestlers, that didn’t belong to the State religion. So these veterans of multiple campaigns, campaigns that would not likely have been won were it not for them, were told to abandon their principles. When they didn’t, as an example, they were marched out onto the ice of a frozen lake until it broke under their feet, and then they were abandoned and drowned. And guess what religion they belonged to? Yup, they were Christian. I guess the cycle of oppression and persecution has gone full circle. Again.
Also, I’m sure General Chambers will have nothing happen to him. His office will release a statement sounding like: “It was not the intention of this Command to force Soldiers into attendance. It is not conceivable to us how the lower level Commanders and NCOs interpreted this as such, and this Command will do everything in its power to find out who is responsible for this…” blah, blah, blah. Basically shifting the blame back on the individual units, or even certain Soldiers in those units. And then there will be a brief hiatus (maybe 6 months, long enough for the current cycle of students to all move on)followed by this concert series starting right back as mandatory fun. Seen it before, and every time I do, it makes me physically ill.
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August 22nd, 2010 at 6:58 pm
I am appalled, both as a US citizen and a taxpayer. My taxes are used for *this*??? The general should be fired.
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Signalist reply on November 29th, 2011 11:58 am:
yes, preferrably using lots of duct tape and a Tomahawk (the one that goes 550 mph)
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August 23rd, 2010 at 12:33 am
Disgraceful. I really wonder what was in Chambers’s mind – this idiocy of his probably did more to discredit his particular faith than anything else he could possibly have done. More in common with Stalinist Russia or the Waffen SS than an allegedly tolerant society, and hopefully somebody has told him so to his face.
Anyhow, he has paid for his actions. Maybe not as much as many of us would have preferred, but that still counts for something. I would hope that he also gets counselling, on the off-chance that he might actually learn something from all this.
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August 23rd, 2010 at 12:35 am
Stonewolf, Chaplains are generally brilliant individuals who do a huge amount for morale for all. They are required to work with all faiths- you may be a Protestant Chaplain, for instance, but you must know how to help a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Hindu, a Wiccan, or an atheist…
Military Chaplains and ex-military Chaplains are leaders in almost every interfaith organization in the country because of that training.
They do have chaplains for all faiths that have over a certain % presence in the military, but the Chaplains office can arrange for nearly anything. No Pagan chaplains? The Chaplain in your unit will normally be able to get you in touch with a local circle or whatever.
Need a confession, and don’t have a Catholic chaplain? One will come to your location once a month or so, or there will be an arrangement with a local parish, since US army Catholic chaplains are actually endorsed by the Vatican as necessary to bless those who fight “God’s Fight”. Been awhile since I read their official page on the subject, but yeah.
See, I wanted to become a chaplain in the military, until I found out I couldn’t join the military at all for various reasons. Went to meet with Chaplains and Chaplain recruiters, went to events hosted by the Chaplaincy, and talked to soldiers about what Chaplains did for them in general. I was pleasantly surprised.
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StoneWolf reply on August 23rd, 2010 6:27 am:
I wasn’t aware they were cross-trained like that, admittedly I haven’t dealt with them personally. From what you describe, it sounds like the original Chaplaincy evolved into more of a counseling/morale branch and never changed titles.
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Tyler reply on August 23rd, 2010 8:42 am:
They are counselors before religious figures, for the most part.
I forgot the name for it, but Chaplains are often with the other guys in the command tent in places like Iraq, for precisely that reason.
And for the most part, things put on by Chaplains are designed to make everyone want to go without making it mandatory. Free food and all that. One of the ones I went to had a western steak house cater. We got brisket and sausage, beans, and slaw. And some biscuits, with cake for dessert. They really went all out.
Of course, that might have been because it was an event that people interested in a Chaplaincy position were invited to :P
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August 23rd, 2010 at 8:31 am
I don’t know why everyone is complaining about the BarlowGirls – they’re good enough looking that I’d shove an American flag in their mouths as a gag and a bible under their asses and fuck them all, in the name of God and Country. I’m sure I could find biblical precendent for the treatment of conquered women or some such to support me, especially in the Old Testament.
On a more serious note, I had a chaplain’s candidate who was feeling his oats, being a brand new butterbar and all, tell me that he could order me to go to religious services as I was only a buck sergeant at the time. Before he knew it, I had him locked in an office with the state’s head chaplain on speakerphone chewing his ass out and seriously considering busting him back to E-nothing before booting him from the military completely. Chaplains, as have been noted in several previous comments, are not here to convert us grunts to their religion, but to support all soldiers regardless of faith or belief, and most of them know this (there are always the rare few who think they know better) and fully support religious freedom in the ranks. It’s assholes like this General who ruin the religious freedom they’re enjoying for everyone else.
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August 24th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
I went to Ft, Eustis from November 2006 to May 2007 for AIT and never heard of this. Thank god, or whatever imaginary man in the sky you believe in, I never had this happen. I doubt someone who is openly disbelievng of any religion would have goten along well with this guy.
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August 25th, 2010 at 7:52 am
okay, wait wait wait a second? are we really truly smashing on a General Officer for the actions of Enlisted soldiers of the rank of E-5 to E-6? i mean seriously? I mean look at your source to condemn a person. You’re looking at LIBERAL, and i stress Liberal, media and what they have to say about it. of course they’re going to make their story an interesting piece of gossip to feed to the sharks, that apparently live here. Whats to say that the USO didn’t put these concerts on? where did it say that Ft. Eustis paid for the performances? did it ever cross the mind of individuals that maybe the CG (commanding general for you non military types) has to approve any concert to be held on his/her installation? Seriously, before you start going for blood, ask yourself the serious questions about whats really in the story.
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M578Jockey reply on August 25th, 2010 8:21 am:
What military did you serve in? During my 20 year I learned that ignorance and stupididty is certainly not limited to the enlisted ranks. Stars on your shoulders doesn’t nesessarily mean you have a brain in your head. At that level it’s mostly politics. And before you say it, yes I was an E-6, but my relatives were all officers (I was the black sheep), so I have not only seen it with my own eyes, but heard it from those who moved in those circles.
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M578Jockey reply on August 25th, 2010 8:50 am:
Another strange thing I have noticed about this story, now that I think about it. The enlisted people I know were all shocked and surprised to hear about a General doing this. The officers, including my next cubicle neighbor who spent ten years at the pentagon, not so much.
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skippy reply on August 25th, 2010 10:27 am:
The General Officer shouldn’t have spent millions on proselytizing to his soldiers. A General Officer is very likely to encourage his subordinates to make sure that soldiers attend a function he put on. I’ve worked with enough higher end of the chain of command types to find this to be a plausible scenario, although ultimately irrelevant, since he shouldn’t have hosted the concerts in the first place.
Also the news article referred to the US Army’s news website as a source, which states that this General set up theses concerts, as a deliberate attempt to make his soldiers more moral, since many of them hadn’t been exposed to morality in their home life.
So yes I can blame the General for having these concerts. The fact that the Huffington post leans liberal is irrelevant, since they listed their facts, which can be followed up on. (Pssst…I did…I usually do before I post news on here ever since I got burned by not doing that once)
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Andy reply on August 31st, 2010 7:48 am:
Point taken.
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August 26th, 2010 at 8:33 am
And hey, if they were spending MWR funds and attendence was REALLY voluntary, you couldn’t really fault them. Just ’cause I wouldn’t go doesn’t mean other people wouldn’t be entertained. ‘Course exactly why we have AAFES and MWR funds stateside, where we should be able to assume a sufficiency of civilian alternatives is a question for another day.
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AFP reply on August 31st, 2010 12:31 pm:
AAFES (and DeCA) is a lifesaver stateside if you don’t own a car and you live in the dorms (it is a HELLA long walk to Wal Mart or Target from the dorms on our base, even before you have bags full of stuff to take back.
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Andy reply on September 9th, 2010 4:30 am:
I seriously don’t understand why you’re complaining about the use of MWR funds stateside. There are a ton of Soldier, Sailors, and Marines who aren’t able to attend those civilian alternatives that you’re reffering to. I can’t count the times that MWR concerts were the only concerts i was able to attend because of my commands restrictions (no leaving base during the work week, no staying out past ten, no owning POVs.). I think that the target audience is wrong yes. The USMC calls their MWR Single Marine Program, allowing only single Marines (of any rank) who live on base in Bachelor quarters to attend the events that they offer. Even as a deployed Marine, I think that MWR isn’t used stateside like it is here. Did you know that the Suicide rate of single enlistedmen (and women) is higher on the homefront than in any forward deployed area like Japan, Korea, Spain, and Germany? I think that we don’t focus enough on the Morale, Recreation and Welfare of our servicemembers stateside.
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