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Another retarded debate

July 24th, 2007 by skippy

Last part, sale then I’ll write something funny again, promise.

Last week I wrote about my views on the execution of the retarded, and received only one violation of Godwin’s Law.  I did see some debate in my comments section going both ways.

I want to clarify my position in a couple of ways.  Some people feel that the retarded, like children, are not completely responsible for their actions.  I agree with this sentiment, but feel that this is a factor when determining innocence or guilt.  In order to be guilty of a capital crime, there is generally a requirement that the guilty party knew what they where doing, otherwise it would be manslaughter, rather than murder.

Now having said all that on the subject, I have to add one last part.  Although I believe in executions in principle, I am actually against the death penalty.

I understand all of the arguments for the executions, and I agree with most of them.  Simply put, an execution is a dynamite way of preventing repeat offenders.  And I believe that once somebody crosses certain lines, they are saying “I do not value this society, and I shall place my own selfish desires ahead the lives of my fellow citizens”.  And I think once that line is crossed our society has better things to spend our recourses on than providing for people like that.

In fact, I think the list of crimes that deserve execution should be expanded to cover rapists, child molesters, corrupt politicians, and some of the more nefarious shenanigans practiced by corporate executives run amok.

The problem as I see it, is not a matter of whether or not certain crimes deserve it.

The problem is that our judicial system is *really* bad at separating the innocent from the guilty.  It’s just horrible at it.  And even though it sucks to spend ten years in jail for something you did not do, at least they can un-incarcerate you. They can’t un-kill you.

My belief is that our legal system was founded on the principal that it is better for the guilty to go free, than for the innocent to get punished.  And no matter how rare an occasion it is for an innocent man to be executed, once is far too many for me.

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12 Responses to “Another retarded debate”

  1. Glen Says:

    Nice and concise. Very well said!



  2. Josh Says:

    I agree, execution on paper sounds like a kick-ass way to get people to stop doing certain things. I am all for capital punishment. I believe that that all people have a right to live, but if you’ve violated that right for other people, you loose that right and deserve to…. well…..die.

    Money is another issue. A bullet is cheap compared to feeding, housing, entertaining, and medicating a convict for the rest of their natural life. The prisons are crowded as is, lets buy some bullets and make some room! Don’t get me started on the people that are serving many years in prison for a pot charge! I’ll just say that it’s bullshit.

    A bigger issue isn’t the problem. It’s the CAUSE of the problem. Where does most crime come from? Drugs. OK…. so lets make drugs illegal to make things better right? No. Creating a a void in a supply chain by making something illegal creates a black market. Black markets make huge profits taking risks other people won’t make for a large payoff. TADA! Gangs everywhere! My opinion is that legalizing drugs and allowing people to self medicate is a good idea. Ok, so if we have an increase in drug use is that a bad thing if we have far less crime because there is no way for “crime lords” to support their business? Wouldn’t the hardcore drug users just die off anyway? I can understand trying to protect people from them selves, but ultimately it comes down to you and the choices you make. It’s that one word my dad tried teach me MANY times. Responsibility.

    Anyway… my point is, we need focus on putting the people away that need to be. And i think i can say that we all want some equality here too. The gov’t just doesn’t seem to be fair anymore. The fact is that nothing is fair, but c’mon, cant we get close?


  3. William Says:

    I have to admit that I have similar feelings to Josh on the legalization of controlled substances. But also other things that are illegal, such as prostitution. Once you make it legal, you can regulate it and tax it. At least then people can be more sure that they’re getting a vaguely decent product.
    Can you deny that the idea of an FDA-approved hooker is priceless?
    As far as the rest goes, I’m with Skippy, as he’s made some really good points. As an alternative to the death sentence, though, what if we made our own sort of Australia? Take some random island in the middle of the ocean and deport criminals to it. We can set up a coast guard station on a nearby island or something. They’re left on the island to fend for themselves. This way, they can either become, collectively a functional unit, or die off. It seems like it would be self-correcting. It will be far beyond the means of your average, or even very clever criminal to escape, but allows you to, for the most part, un-incarcerate people if they are found innocent. I realize there are many flaws in the idea, but doesn’t it seem like a good alternative to what we have now?
    “$30,000 per year per inmate” is a statistic I’ve heard from a variety of sources. It seems like the island would be more effective both fiscally and administratively.


    Mr. Yyelo reply on March 12th, 2012 10:16 pm:

    Like in that movie. Condemned i think it’s called.


  4. SPC RANDALL Says:

    I’m with William on this. But i dont say an island I say put a wall around Iraq and drop all our inmates that have done serious crime in it (A.E. murder,rape,kidnapping, and child molestation etc.) It would take care of two problems. One the insurgents while be unable to hold them off, and two there whould be no problem with have to pay for them to sit in a cell and get fad for killing someone. I dont know maybe I’ve been in Afacrackastan to long or maybe I got a point. Skippy the 82nd need more people like you and you make some good points. “Dih-Nee-Lan!”


  5. Analee Says:

    Excellent point, Skippy! With all the DNA testing capabilities they have these days, you would think that they’d be smart enough to figure out “Uh, DURRR. WE GOTS DA WRONG GUY!!!”

    I also like SPC RANDALL’s idea, and he scores extra points for the use of “Dih-Nee-Lan,” ’cause that seriously cracks me up every time I think of it.


  6. Dianna Says:

    Good point. The problem is “un-executing” people vs. societal hygiene, and I don’t see any easy way of resolving that.

    On legalizing drugs, prostitution, etc.: I’ve lived in neighborhoods where they were de facto legal, and I came to the conclusion that, in the end, some things need to be illegal.


  7. jon Says:

    skippy, well constructed.

    I don’t want to ignite a religious argument, but I think that we also derive most of our attitudes about capital punishment from a day and age where most folks thought that some crimes were best paid for in the afterlife, however you want to construe it. I suspect we would find that, in societies where there is a widespread adherence to a religious doctrine that preaches an afterlife (for example, medieval Europe) life comes pretty dirt cheap. As a society begins to question the mythos permeating the religious culture, (usually after a scientific revolution like the enlightenment), however, this material life becomes more valuable because folks begin to suspect that this is all there is, or that should matter right now. By this logic, in that type of society, capital punishment *should* act as a greater overall deterrent, were it to be properly enforced. The trouble is that the materialist ideology values life *so* highly, that it is rarely employed effectively.

    It also undercuts the idea that a particular religious ideology gives human life greater value, which may not necessarily be the case in all cultures. (and I think if we all used our imaginations a little, you might be able to think of a few that fall on either side of this issue.)

    In the end, the abuses inherent in any system prevent the system from being implemented to it’s greatest potential, and innocents die as a result.

    the founding fathers were smart fellas…better to let the guilty walk, than punish an innocent.


  8. MuhammadJihad Says:

    No, legalizing drugs is retarded. Or just dutch. Which is all the same to me. If the gub’ment wants to have a war on drugs then they need to grow some nuts and fuck shit up. “oh no they’re processing cocaine what do we do!” What you do is (A.) Blow them the fuck up. (B.) shut the fuck up and deal with it because you took no decisive action. It’s the same as Vietnam and Iraq. You need to go all out when you do something, don’t pussy foot around and do it half-assed or everyone just suffers more.


  9. sickminds Says:

    Maybe instead of argueing about whether or not to execute, we should argue about how. this is right from George Carlin but I agree with the general thought process. Instead of abolishing the death penalty or argueing about how humane it is we make it more painful. Not televised as he suggested but well known how its done; hangings, decapitating; burning at the stake, punishments along those lines. Do I want to go through any of it, no, but that is part of the idea. But at the same time it will give some of these people some deep second thoughts about the crime they are about to commit. I know someone will say that its not humane and I understand that fact, but how humane is it to kill a child, rape a woman, or kill a young childs parents.


  10. Riley Says:

    Meh, i’m torn. The judicial system is a farce these days (any one who’s had to stand before a judge should know this). The criminals who are familiar with the system get off easily, quickly, and almost scott free. Whilst the innocent get punished because they fight so hard to prove it, that the courts throw the book at them when they make their decision because they ‘wasted their time.’
    But thats the courts.

    When it comes to the death penalty, they need to do a couple of things.
    1. Get rid of the Suicide watch. If they want to off themselves, it saves the country a lot of money.
    2. Offer them a way to give back to society, and make up for what they took away from it. (E.G. A plan to be used for Medical Studies, and etc…). They are to die, and if they truly believe in an after life, the potential to save millions of lives may be a wash for their bad deeds.

    3. Open a Colosseum! Winners get another “last meal!” Loser… well… is taken care of.
    Ticket Sales, PPV, Toys, Product Advertisements, etc… would make boat loads of money.
    We pay people to beat the hell outta people. And etc… Why not make money from something that is going to happen regardless?

    lol, btw, in case i’m taken as being serious on #3. I want to say its a joke. Inspired by a stupid comment from an idiot on death row who brutally murdered a little girls family, then tortured and murdered her, and called ‘lethal injection,’ ‘cruel and unusual’ punishment.

    And here are a few suggestions for the regular jails.
    1. Quit letting people out ‘early’ for ‘good behavior.’ When you do that you negate the “Mandatory minimum sentences.” And you make a joke of going to jail. You are SUPPOSED to be good whilst you are incarcerated! If you are not, thats when they lengthen your stay.
    If you are good, you still get stuck with what the judge gave ya. (no matter how ignorant the judge is. Thats why we have appeals. supposedly…).

    2. Quit letting jails have perks and frills like T.V. and etc… You are here to be punished. Rehabilitated. Reeducated. and (if all goes well) Released.
    Not come here, hang with ya old mates, learn some new tricks, make new contacts, get new addictions, be released, cause more crime, (and if ya still hopefully and idiot) get Reincarcerated.
    Give them a Cot, Food, Water, Books, Counseling, and Solitude. (Cause you really should be reflecting on your deeds as ‘bad,’ rather than braggin to ya mates how ‘awesome’ it was, and how you’re going to do it differently ‘next time’). Prison is supposed to be bad. Not a High School Resort-Esq establishment.

    But those are just my thoughts mate.
    Keep up the great work!


  11. SrA Says:

    i worked at a jail and might i say… kill the rapists and pedifiles!!! and no, not the “my girlfriend is 15 and i’m seventeen” cases, the a##holes that destroy little kids and then want to tell you about it to enhance their pleasure from the memory.. for THOSE guys, lets bring back the fireing squad. bullets are cheep


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