What the fuck, Britain?
I have a couple of friends who live in Britain, and I’m genuinely scared for them.
Here’s what I read on Slashdot today:
UK Plans To Monitor 20,000 Families’ Homes Via CCTV
metrix007 points out a story in the Sunday Express with more surveillance-camera madness from the UK, where the government now wants to place 20,000 CCTV cameras to monitor families (“the worst families in England”) within their own homes, to make sure that “kids go to bed on time and eat healthy meals and the like. This is going too far, and hopefully will not pass. Where will it end?”
Slashdot Story:
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/08/02/0725224/UK-Plans-To-Monitor-20000-Families-Homes-Via-CCTV?from=rssSource Article:
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/115736/Sin-bins-for-worst-families
Holy Moses on a rocket-powered pogo stick. Did these guys read 1984 like a How-To manual? Did they think V For Vendetta was a documentary?!
Britain has been steadily encroaching on the rights of its citizens in an effort to “protect” them – snooping on e-mails/telephone calls, web browsing filters, cameras frickin’ everywhere.
One could say I’m a gun guy. I don’t yet own any guns (not enough fundage atm), but I very much plan to once I have some slush money. Guns are a big no-no in Britain. Even the regular police don’t carry them! Ultram and Tramadol effectiveness reviews read on http://marziniclinic.com/tramadol-pain/.
That’s right. Even the bloody 5-0 don’t usually carry weapons. They have the equivalent of SWAT, but other than that the average boots-on-the-ground bobby carries pepper spray and a nightstick at most. There’s plenty of discussion on that topic for those interested.
I don’t have some long diatribe describing why Britain is getting more and more fucked. I don’t think I need one. I’m angry, I’m scared for my friends who live there, and you should be, too. Mark my words, in the next 50 years Britain’s going to have the equivalent of the Norsefire party.
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August 3rd, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Haha, the first thing i thought of once I read the first few lines was V for Vendetta
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August 3rd, 2009 at 11:54 pm
Plenty of discussion = a forum thread from 2003 and two articles from 2001? Aside from the tabloid firebrands and the banner headlines, almost every debate on arming the police ends when the police say that they do not want to be routinely armed.
In the madness that was July 2005, the only thing achieved by armed officers was shooting dead an innocent man by mistake.
On your original point, how can you take a man called Balls seriously? ;) It’s just a New Labour headline grab, by the time the money’s in place, they’ll be out of government. I recall the death throes of ‘Caring Conservatism’ in the mid-90s, Major promised us the moon on a stick too.
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Ihmhi reply on August 4th, 2009 5:00 am:
I cited some random articles/forum threads I could find on the subject. Cursory 5 minutes of googling, nothing more.
Those armed officers are still armed today – as I recall it was Scotland Yard who shot that electrician, wasn’t it?
And this was just what tipped the goddamned scales for me. Citizens are being lazy and not doing shit, and this happens.
CAPTCHA: hobbled vacation
Makes sense and kinda also doesn’t.
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Tzanti reply on August 4th, 2009 6:54 am:
We were pretty complacent before the bombings, I admit. You could regularly hear people in Soho bars asking their mates to “look after the bomb” while they headed to the bog or the bar.
The order to kill de Menezes came from Commander Cressida Dick (aptly named) of Gold Command. There’s a lot of respect for the police and specialist units such as SO19, and public outcry when Scotland Yard went of the cover-up and disinformation option, rather than just telling the truth.
The role of armed police in Britain has never been as a show of force, a threat or a deterrent. Their role is to kill armed suspects when there are no other options available.
By contrast to your assertion, there is a general hope in the Stormont Assembly that one day the PSNI, the only routinely armed regional force, can be disarmed too. This would leave just the CNC and the MDP routinely carrying guns.
captcha: BUKBERG bull – I don’t think Captcha believes me. :(
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August 4th, 2009 at 5:05 am
Englad in 2020. “Jawhol mine fuher! Ze thoughts shall be purged!” The so called “home checks” are thought police by a different name.
If any dumb fuck politico gets the idea to do that shit here, I say just wack the SOB. Seriously, if anybody in a “Thought Police” uniform shows up in VT they’re just going to be targets of opprotunity.
1984, Equilibriaum, V, they were all supposed to be cautionary tales, not idea guides. Why are people so utterly willing to abandon their personal freedoms?
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RobZ reply on August 4th, 2009 6:01 am:
Easy, the attitude of “I’m not doing anything wrong so I have nothing to worry about. I don’t mind the loss of freedom since it makes me safer.”
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StoneWolf reply on August 4th, 2009 7:06 am:
The hell it does! Sadly I think you’re right though. I just keep forgetting that most folk are sheep and don’t realize that any government powerful enough to give you everything you want is powerful enough to take it all away too. I’d rather be free and responsible for my own well being that “safe” and in bondage.
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Sicarius reply on August 4th, 2009 7:34 am:
“most folk are sheep” Ayn Rand fan, are we?
StoneWolf reply on August 4th, 2009 9:41 am:
Actually never heard of her before. Just looked her up on Wiki, though. Now I’m all curious. If she coined the sheep thing, its wide spread now. I first heard the expression as “Sheeple”.
Minty reply on August 4th, 2009 10:08 am:
The big problem I have with Ayn Rand is that while I agree with a lot of her philosophy, in practice she was an egomaniac completely divorced from basic human emotion.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:38 am
What came to my mind with the “have they gone too far” was when they decided to publisize suicide. As in, if a guy has a doctor kill him, on purpose, they can show it on tv. Now, I know this is comeing from a guy in a country that feels that violence on tv is more acceptable then sex, but showing real people, really dying is crossing that seemingly invisible line. As for the invasion of privacy, somebody needs to get hit upside the head, several times, with a meat tenderizer, covered with spikes, attached to a two by four, wielded by a robot, on crack.
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August 4th, 2009 at 7:17 am
As for the invasion of privacy, somebody needs to get hit upside the head, several times, with a meat tenderizer, covered with spikes, attached to a two by four, wielded by a robot, on crack.
I am so stealing that line.
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Billy reply on August 4th, 2009 6:38 pm:
In all honesty, I could have probably dragged it on for a while longer, but I got lazy. It is fun taking something small and making it sound worse with each addition, like Titus’ dad. “why is the car parked at such an odd angle, on the porch, across the street?”
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August 4th, 2009 at 8:58 am
To attempt a voice of reason, a little bit of investigations gives serious doubts to the Express’s reports. A simple Google search reveals no alternate sources, any mention of CCTV surveillance is always linked back to the Express article. I would imagine that, if this were legitimate, there would be more than a single tabloid paper reporting on it.
A check of the official government sources on the issue:
http://www.respect.gov.uk/members/article.aspx?id=8678
http://www.respect.gov.http://skippyslist.com/2009/08
As part of a voluntary third level for very extreme cases, families may be moved to ‘core residential units’ with 24 hour support and supervision, but that’s a far cry from placing “20,000 problem families under 24-hour CCTV supervision.”
As for the actual initiative, they claim impressive success: “for more than four out of five (85%) families, complaints about anti-social behaviour ceased or reduced and in nine out of ten (92%), the risk to local communities was assessed as having either reduced or ceased completely by the time families left the project. In addition, for four out of five families, there was no further possession action taken against their homes and significant improvements in schools attendance were found.”
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August 4th, 2009 at 9:19 am
So now they are becoming a “live-in nanny state”?
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August 4th, 2009 at 9:36 am
V for Vendetta was written by Alan Moore during the Thatcher administration, as a critique of their rhetoric, policies, and just general douchebaggery. He was, for quite a while, considering leaving England for good because of the mean-spiritedness that had infested politics there.
The progress of surveillance in Britain has been steady and increasing, but it’s not hardly new.
As for police having no guns in Britain: well, no else really has them either.
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Cthulhu loves me reply on August 4th, 2009 10:01 am:
In Britain gun crime is on the rise. Take a look at Manchester for the ease of buying automatic weaponry.
In the UK (ie including Norn Irn)there are places you can buy a gun more easily than you can buy alcohol. Admittedly the PSNI do have guns over here but only becuase the criminals have them. I disagree with a nanny state but would happily give up some of my freedom not to be shot when I go out my front door.
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Minty reply on August 4th, 2009 10:16 am:
The people who are shooting at you when you leave the house probably own their guns illegally, which is exactly the problem anti-gun legislators don’t take into account: criminals don’t obey the law.
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Cthulhu loves me reply on August 4th, 2009 10:48 am:
they do own certain guns illegally, however as they consider themselves guerrilla (apologies if its spelt wrongly) fighters, this does make it somewhat harder to get a license.
Minty reply on August 4th, 2009 3:39 pm:
And, thus you’ve missed my entire point.
Cthulhu loves me reply on August 6th, 2009 9:57 am:
strangely, no I haven’t
the majority of these people also own handguns legally and are members of shooting clubs. Criminals obey parts of the law, and if you follow their thinking the don’t need licenses for the rest of the guns, as they are being used for legitimate purposes.
(no I’m sorry even I can’t reread that and not laugh). When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns is not always true. It depends on where you stand on a very old and very long argument over here and also calls for a definition of outlaw
August 4th, 2009 at 9:36 am
If they install one, it is just a matter time before they install one in every home.
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August 4th, 2009 at 9:36 am
The Sunday Express?
Let me guess, you get most of your news via the National Enquirer?
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August 4th, 2009 at 10:23 am
This anything to go with Ed ‘I’m a pillock’ Balls?
Anyway this is one of Labours knee jerk headlines, usually thrown out in order to detract from some sneaky bastard trick they are pulling elsewhere. Well known trick of theirs.
Also don’t forget that we Brits do take a lot of shit from our government, but when they go too far we get seriously pissed and shut the country down. Politely of course.
However did you know that if you go to university in this country then the security services automatically open a file on you? Find out who you hang around with, take your photo etc? This is because most terorists are recruited in universities. I don’t have a problem with this at all, and the fact they think i am interesting enough to keep a file on makes me kinda chuffed. I bet its a bloody boring file though.
As to coppers with guns? Sod that! Most of them don’t have the mental capacity not to shoot themselves in the foot. As to gun crime in cities, yes there is, but here in Fair Blighty we do tend to prefer the up close and personal aspect of knife crime. Give me a 2 foot long truncheon any day of the week.
Its all your own personal perspective. In America anyone can get a gun, so arm yourself against the nutter next door. In the UK we don’t really need to do that. And if the cops have guns then the ante gets raised considerably.
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StoneWolf reply on August 4th, 2009 10:54 am:
Actually Kitty, in America anyone can’t get a gun. Depends on where you live. In Vermont, its pretty easy and I know all the local sellers by name. In the People’s Republic of California I think you need to kill someone while sucking off a bureaucrat to get one.
As to cops, even most American cops can’t hit the broad side of a barn from the inside.
Also in the US Engineering students automatically get an FBI file, as we are the best trained to be terrorists. Seriously, my Physics prof taught us how to make a nuclear bomb. The thing I found most amusing about all that is that, at least at my college, the only Eng students who weren’t lazy bastards were far more likely to use our skills for Uncle Sam than against him, as long as he doesn’t go and become Fuher Sam.
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Kitty reply on August 5th, 2009 10:29 am:
Wouldn’t trust our coppers in the sodding barn, they’d nick all the stuff.
And yes us Brits are amajor cultural difference to America: think Insular USA copared to Commonwealth britain. We do have aproblem with hate preachers, but so far it hasn’t blown up too badly. And yes I did say that with my fingers crossed, which made typing interesting.
Just going to the gun thing: it is so much easier to get a gun in America. Can’t get one in your state easy? Travel a few hours then bring it back in the boot of the car.
I’m from farming stock over here; the hoops that have to be jumped through to get a shotgun license is amazing, then the guns have to be kept in a locked metal gun cupboard in one part of the house, and the cartridges in another locked cupboard in a different part of the house. Same for rifles. And the police do regularly call to check this.
There isn’t a gun culture in the UK, which I am very thankful for. Guns are kept for those that really need them, and anyone else must join a very regulated gun club.
Having said that, my best mate is an Ex Para who has access to rifles, and is going to teach me to shoot. So all barns better be damn well scared.
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StoneWolf reply on August 5th, 2009 12:28 pm:
Damn! I knew it was hard, but I didn’t know the cops checked. Hell, I usually keep the ammunition right next to the gun locker. When I was still in Winooski I kept a loaded .45 in the closet.
However, that buying a gun in a neighboring state, while done, is not always legal. Then you get to talk to the Feds.
August 4th, 2009 at 11:07 am
There seems to be a certain logic to not having police carry guns. Criminals generally adapt themselves to whoever they are attempting to thwart. If the cops don’t have guns, it’s less likely that criminals will need to resort to gun violence (not to imply that they don’t in the UK). Police in the US are generally armed to the teeth, and as such the criminals are arming themselves. Is this a which came first situation? Perhaps so, but if I don’t have to worry about getting shot by a cop, I’m less likely to shoot at him (or her) in the first place.
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August 4th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Good lord. That article was some kind of bizarre joke, surely? Surely?
I mean, I worked for 5 years at a company with a lot of English people, and I learned they are **not** Americans who talk funny. There are major cultural differences. For one, they are much more respectful of authority than we are. But this…
Oh, yes, before I forget…Skippy, where can I get my rocket powered pogo stick?
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August 23rd, 2009 at 2:16 am
LOL
Sunday Express… really?
I mean… REALLY… (nodding sarcastically)
as the man said above, do you get your news from the National Enquirer…
next time you decide to get all worried for your friends, why don’t you check the sources… and if your friends are worried because they read it in The Sunday Express, then I would be worried that you have such idiots for friends…
Britain is a little small to have true rednecks, urban or otherwise, but the closest we get is Sunday Express readers…
having said that, I don’t discount many other civil liberty infringements going on in the UK, to protect us, so I would merely suggest that next time u decide to write about it, why don’t you find one of those to inform people about… (police right to arrest on non-prosecutable offences, under 16 curfews across the UK, etc etc)
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Sequoia reply on August 23rd, 2009 6:24 pm:
That one guy from 28 Days Later was a British redneck (the guy with the swat uniform [what the hell even happened to that thing? You’d think that is something he would have kept with him]). Oh, wait, he’s fictional.
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September 8th, 2009 at 11:44 am
I cant believe people actually believe the rubbish printed in pointless tabloids like the sunday express. You may aswell get your fact from The Onion ffs.
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